The sermon went well (I'll post it up here this week, probably tomorrow). There were maybe fifteen-twenty people in the congregation, nearly all over the age of 45 0r 50. The worship came from the hymns, and afterward we had some pizza and then I was grilled by the elders and by one of the deacons on questions regarding their church's growth. A few points:
1. One of their questions regarded if I could grow the church. I told them that if I got the job, I would seek to grow the church, but I told them I wouldn't make any promises. From what I understand, the church itself refuses to make changes because they're comfortable with how things are going. They want growth but not at the expense of actual change. The way they're doing things worked fifty years ago, but it's 2010 and culture has changed. They asked what changes needed to be made, and I told them that I couldn't answer that question at the moment because I wasn't too familiar with the church. I emphasized that church growth isn't dependent upon the pastor but upon the congregation; and I told them that the reason the church hasn't grown has less to do with the church's leader than it does the church members themselves expecting someone else to do all the work while they reap the benefits. I also made it a point that if they want the church to grow, and if they hire me, then if changes need to be made for growth, then those changes should be implemented; and if the church refuses to implement them, then the fault will not lie on my shoulders. I told them that around 300 churches start each year, and 3000 die; and none of the churches that have died thought they'd be the ones closing their doors. I told them one of the greatest signs of foolishness is to keep doing the same thing over and over expecting different results, and I told them that they've been declining over the past five years, so changes will need to be made for the decline will plummet straight to death. One of the elders told me there was a lot of turmoil within the church, and I told him quite matter-of-factly that if the church is to grow, the turmoil needs to be, first and foremost, dealt with.
2. One of the elders is very into the whole idea of going door-to-door within the neighborhood inviting people to church. Sure, it may have worked fifty years ago, but now doing such things is like identifying with Jehovah's Witnesses, or at least making oneself out to be like a used car salesman. He asked if I would do that, and quite bluntly I told him, "No." He talked about how it is our job to reach out to the lost, and I told him I agree, but that reaching out to the lost isn't about finding the quickest and easiest way of doing it but finding the most effective way. I asked him how much the church has grown thanks to such evangelistic efforts, and he dodged the question. I told him that we need to find innovative and creative ways to reach those who are not part of the kingdom, and that going door-to-door is a cop-out because it's easier than really wrestling with the question, "How can I effectively do this?" and it's also more damaging than beneficial. "You don't want your church to get the reputation of the one that goes door-to-door bothering people who are trying to quietly lead their lives." He asked me if I would do it once a week, and I said no; once a month, and I said no; and I told him, "I'm honestly not going to do it." Maybe that will cost me the job, but who knows?
3. One of the men asked me, "Would you work as hard if we didn't pay you as much as we said we would?" and I said, "Absolutely not." And he said, "Well, sure you would." And I said, "No, really, I wouldn't." One of my good friends who was involved in a small church like F.C.C. bathed in turmoil told me, "Don't let them try to make you work full-time if you're hired part-time." Even if I could let them do it (I can't, because I already work full-time), I wouldn't. And I made sure they knew that.
Regarding the church, someone asked me a few days ago if I'm worried about it. "No," I told her. "I know that God has called me to proclaim the cosmic good news, and he's not going to leave that all up to me. I'll try my hardest, I'll do my job, and leave it in his hands. If the job is offered to me, and once a contract is written out, and if the contract is fair, then I'll take the job. If the job is offered to someone else, that's quite fine with me." There are pros and cons to getting the job, and thus pros and cons to not getting the job. Either way, and this is God's honest truth, I'll be content. We'll just have to see what happens. All I know is that the congregation loved my sermon and I was very personable and all the ladies liked me, and the elders told me that they haven't heard such a good and solid biblical sermon in a long time, and a few people told me (whether or not this is reliable) that I already have their votes. Soon I may be meeting up with the current minister to figure out just what I'd be getting myself into if I took the job.
2. One of the elders is very into the whole idea of going door-to-door within the neighborhood inviting people to church. Sure, it may have worked fifty years ago, but now doing such things is like identifying with Jehovah's Witnesses, or at least making oneself out to be like a used car salesman. He asked if I would do that, and quite bluntly I told him, "No." He talked about how it is our job to reach out to the lost, and I told him I agree, but that reaching out to the lost isn't about finding the quickest and easiest way of doing it but finding the most effective way. I asked him how much the church has grown thanks to such evangelistic efforts, and he dodged the question. I told him that we need to find innovative and creative ways to reach those who are not part of the kingdom, and that going door-to-door is a cop-out because it's easier than really wrestling with the question, "How can I effectively do this?" and it's also more damaging than beneficial. "You don't want your church to get the reputation of the one that goes door-to-door bothering people who are trying to quietly lead their lives." He asked me if I would do it once a week, and I said no; once a month, and I said no; and I told him, "I'm honestly not going to do it." Maybe that will cost me the job, but who knows?
3. One of the men asked me, "Would you work as hard if we didn't pay you as much as we said we would?" and I said, "Absolutely not." And he said, "Well, sure you would." And I said, "No, really, I wouldn't." One of my good friends who was involved in a small church like F.C.C. bathed in turmoil told me, "Don't let them try to make you work full-time if you're hired part-time." Even if I could let them do it (I can't, because I already work full-time), I wouldn't. And I made sure they knew that.
Regarding the church, someone asked me a few days ago if I'm worried about it. "No," I told her. "I know that God has called me to proclaim the cosmic good news, and he's not going to leave that all up to me. I'll try my hardest, I'll do my job, and leave it in his hands. If the job is offered to me, and once a contract is written out, and if the contract is fair, then I'll take the job. If the job is offered to someone else, that's quite fine with me." There are pros and cons to getting the job, and thus pros and cons to not getting the job. Either way, and this is God's honest truth, I'll be content. We'll just have to see what happens. All I know is that the congregation loved my sermon and I was very personable and all the ladies liked me, and the elders told me that they haven't heard such a good and solid biblical sermon in a long time, and a few people told me (whether or not this is reliable) that I already have their votes. Soon I may be meeting up with the current minister to figure out just what I'd be getting myself into if I took the job.
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